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Topic :
The Sea of Darkness?
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Ron
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 posted
On
7/31/2007
From the words of the esteemed Gibbon;
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/g/gibbon/edward/g43d/chapter55.html
"The ancestors of these Dalmatian kings were equally removed from the use and abuse of navigation: they dwelt in the White Croatia, in the inland regions of Silesia and Little Poland, thirty days’ journey, according to the Greek computation, from the sea of darkness."
Thus, for what ever reason, Gibbon, it appears, refers to the Adriatic Sea as "the sea of darkness", but he does not capitalize Sea or Darkness! So, we cannot be sure if he meant anything when using this term?
Well of course he meant something! Hadria or Adria or Adrian, etc., means "dark!" Just how did this sea receive this moniker? I have sailed it and I never saw anything that could describe it as a "dark sea?"
Could it be, that at one time, the sea was considered dark because it was dangerous to sail in it? Yes, of course! Pirates in this area are known for years and years in our currently accepted version of history. Even the Venetians were considered "pirates" at one time or another! But, in general, sailing down or up the Adriatic Sea, one is only a few nautical miles to the east or west in view of the coast line of Italy of of the area called Dalmatia, in the past! In other words, the crossing of this sea, even by sailboat, can be acheived in a rather short time at the narrowist points in but a few hours!
So, maybe we can assume that those sailors wishing to cross this sea and avoid the piratical bands that menaced them, made their crossings at "Night", or in the "darkness?"
Thus, "the dark sea!"
Or, maybe there are other reasons? Can any of you think of any?
Regards,
Ron
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gf
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posted
On
6/3/2007
Ok, I just now read this thread and the name IAN translates into John and we know the big "mythical personas" of Jesus and the one who baptised him (born 6 months after him) named John the Baptist...
So here Ian means "dark". You ever notice some words may have ATLEAST TWO MEANINGS and sometimes a word can be both translated "white" or "dark" as in our earlier argument with Erol over the word "Titan"!
My point is that "ian" may have been termed "dark" but this may be only by political motive and its true meaning may really be too difficult to label "white" or "dark". I am saying that there are some words that have "heavy symbolic meaning" and are interpretted merely through bias. Think of all the words associated with "dark"! I agree with your topic because its a hot one.
Ron, you gave some possible good reasons for the name of the "sea of darkness" and if you or someone else speculate more maybe it will become more clear.
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Ron
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posted
On
7/23/2007
Dear Hypermillan, you wrote, for phun!
"Phrixus and Helle. Friesland and Holland.? Very possible!
Iman Wilkens: Hellespontos = North Sea. ditto
Hel in Dutch means bright ( contrary to the “dark” Black Sea). Nord See, equal bright? Maybe!
Phrygia = Frisia = Friesland. I could agree with this!'
So, can I make a few suggestions? Can the word HEL(l), as in Hellenes, be connected to Hades?, or maybe more correctly to Hellas / Helles / Ellas or Ellis? / Hellespont = The Sea of Helle!
Helle, fell off of a flying Golden Ram, into the sea here and died thus the name. Helle was a female. It would have been a "dark day" for her!
Various nations have collected taxes / fees for safe passage thru this straight over the years and since one side was Asia and the other Europe, and various cities or city states have controlled differing sides of this narrow stretch of sea, then numerous demands for payment may have met any trading ship wishing to carry cargo thru it.
Thus it might well have been considered as "Hell" to have to pay such fees?
Or, it might have made sense to travel thru it during the darkness, where the customs collectors, toll collectors would have trouble seeing them?
Thus, it could have been referred to as the Dark Passage or Dark Straight, or even the Dark Sea, a passage made in the Dark?
I hope you "see" that the word for a section of the Roman Catholic church, as is regarded as a "apostolic see" is not phoenetically confused with the word "Sea!", as could be said for any large body of water! 072307
Just some musings!
Ron
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gf
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posted
On
6/5/2007
Ron you have been on a roll for a few days now and I dont know where to begin hehe.
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Ron
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posted
On
6/5/2007
Well, you might begin with this?
From Wikipedia;
"The Ionians were one of the four main ancient Greek phyla or tribes, linked by their use of the Ionic dialect of the Greek language. The other three groups were the Achaeans, the Dorians and the Aeolians. They were known collectively as Hellenes. The Athenians, in the peninsula of Attica, were the only Ionians on the Greek mainland. The Greeks of the Aegean islands, however, were almost entirely Ionian, the main exception being the Aeolians of Lesbos and the Dorians of Rhodes and the islands among the Dorian Hexapolis. The northern shores of the Aegean Sea, in Thrace, were also home to Greek colonists of Ionian descent and the French city of Marseille was founded by Ionians from Phocaea in Ionia.
The middle section of the Greek-speaking western coast of Asia Minor was actually called "Ionian" and its inhabitants so outshone the other Asian Greeks, the southern Dorians and northern Aeolians, that Asians used the term "Ionian" (Assyrian "Yamanni") to refer to all Greeks. This is still the case - Greece/Greek is Hunastan/Huyn in Armenian, Yunan/Yunaniyy in Arabic, Yawan/Y?wani in Hebrew (appearing in the English Bible as Javan, and Yavana in Sanskrit).
According to semi-historical Greek legend, Ionia was colonised by refugees from mainland Greece expelled by the invading Dorians in the Heroic Age, leaving Attica as the only European outpost of the Ionian race. According to myth, the Ionians were descended from the hero Ion, son of Xuthus, son of Hellen (the mythical progenitor of all the Hellenes, whose other two sons were Aeolus and Dorus)."
Thus, if you are correct about the word "Ion" = Jon = Johann, etc., meaning "dark!", then you have to connect this same world to Helle = Hellene = Helenes = Ionians = Ionian Sea = Dark Sea!
But, you see, I have gone beyond just reading the books of the Fomenko Group and our sites book. For one thing, I have recently read "The Ottoman Centuries", by Lord Kinross, as well as some books about the crusades, especially the First Crusade. I suggest to all of you that you cannot well understand the implications of the Fokmenko books, or "The Empire of the Israelites", without having some real knowledge of the history of the crusades and the emergence of the Ottoman Empire and its predecessors, for it is within such books that our revisionist connections can be found.
Ron
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Ron
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posted
On
6/5/2007
Speaking of "darkness", just where is "Kilka's Easter Surprise?"
Anton, don't you have anyway to find out?
Ron
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gf
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posted
On
6/6/2007
Ron, I said that ANY words that imply darkness more often than not will be found to have the opposite meaning also like "bright". I think some words are tangled with political motive. Ion could mean "bright" as much as it means "dark". I said that there are a very many words with "deep symbolic" meaning that tend to be too symbolic to be simply interpretted "dark" or "bright".
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Ron
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posted
On
6/6/2007
From an above post where I quoted the following;
"The middle section of the Greek-speaking western coast of Asia Minor was actually called "Ionian" and its inhabitants so outshone the other Asian Greeks, the southern Dorians and northern Aeolians, that Asians used the term "Ionian" (Assyrian "Yamanni") to refer to all Greeks."
THE WORD "OUTSHONE OR OUTSHOWN?", MIGHT ALSO INDICATE "BRITENESS?, OR LIGHT?
"This is still the case - Greece/Greek is Hunastan/Huyn in Armenian, Yunan/Yunaniyy in Arabic, Yawan/Y?wani in Hebrew (appearing in the English Bible as Javan, and Yavana in Sanskrit)."
ABOVE, THE WORD YAWAN OR JAVAN, MIGHT WELL BE YAVEH OR JOVAN? OR, JOHN = JUAN?
"According to semi-historical Greek legend, Ionia was colonised by refugees from mainland Greece expelled by the invading Dorians in the Heroic Age, leaving Attica as the only European outpost of the Ionian race. According to myth, the Ionians were descended from the hero Ion, son of Xuthus, son of Hellen (the mythical progenitor of all the Hellenes, whose other two sons were Aeolus and Dorus)."
ABOVE, THE WORD XUTHUS, SON OF HELLEN, MAY BE OR IS JUST ANOTHER WORD FOR JESUS? = ION = JOHN = JUAN, ETC.
RON
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gf
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posted
On
6/7/2007
Ron, you are saying absolutely great stuff!!
I only think that we need more "bigger pictures" or theorys from people just to see how they can fit this info you are now posting into our history.
There are so many "true" points that you have raised here but I like to see the specifics so I can be sure but I am saying that you are giving valuable info that we can use for our end theorys.
Infact, right away I am realizing that what you are talking about here is the exact same mythology/religion of "Jah" that the poster named Eso here discussed and made a thread on (about his book he wrote) called "Midsummer,Sun worship, and John"!;
http://www.revisedhistory.org/forum/showthread.aspx?m=101945
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Ron
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posted
On
7/26/2007
I really thought that someone might have come to some conclusion regarding this post, but it is conceivable that there are just too few readers to consider it?
So, don't you think it strange that our history has two seas, located but a few hundred miles from each other at the nearest point, that have names that are basically alike? These seas are, of course, the Black Sea and the Adriatic Sea! But, as we know, each of these seas is or has been often called by other names. The Adriatic (Adria or Hadria) Sea, is often referred to on maps and literature as the Sea or Gulf of Venice and the Black Sea is known from this; From Wiki:
"Modern names of the Sea are universally equivalents of the English name, "Black Sea", including Bulgarian Cherno more (????? ????), Georgian Shavi zghva (???? ????), Laz Ucha Zuga, or simply Zuga 'Sea', Romanian Marea Neagra, Russian Chyornoye more (?????? ????), Turkish Karadeniz, Ukrainian Chorne more (????? ????), Ubykh /??a?a/. This name cannot be traced to an earlier date than the thirteenth century, but there are indications that it may be considerably older.
Strabo's Geography (1.2.10) reports that in antiquity, the Black Sea was often just called "the Sea" (pontos). For the most part, Graeco-Roman tradition refers to the Black Sea as the 'Hospitable sea', Euxeinos Pontos (???e???? ???t??). This is a euphemism replacing an earlier 'Inhospitable Sea', Pontos Axeinos, first attested in Pindar (early fifth century BCE). Strabo (7.3.6) thinks that the Black Sea was called "inhospitable" before Greek colonization because it was difficult to navigate, and because its shores were inhabited by savage tribes; and that the name was changed to "hospitable" after the Milesians had colonized, making it part of Greek civilization. It is also possible that the name Axeinos arose by popular etymology from an Iranian axšaina- 'dark'; the designation "Black Sea" may thus date from Antiquity. The reason for the name may be an ancient assignment of colours to the direction of the compass — black referring to the north, and red referring to the south. Herodotus on one occasion uses Red Sea and Southern Sea interchangeably.[5]
Another possible explanation comes from the colour of the Black Sea's deep waters. Being further north than the Mediterranean Sea and much less saline, the microalgae concentration is much richer, causing the dark colour. Visibility in the Black Sea is on average approximately five meters (5.5 yd), as compared to up to thirty-five meters (38 yd) in the Mediterranean.
One Bulgarian understanding of the name is that the sea used to be quite stormy. Some sources stipulate that it goes back to the time of Noah's Ark. The Black Sea deluge theory is based on that idea."
Thus, it seems, in reality, the explanation as to the reason it was sometimes called the "Black Sea", was because it might have been "dificult to navigate at one time", or a host of other ideas! In a nutshell, it is mostly speculation!
Please note that one of its most popular names in historical accounts seems to have been "the Hospitable Sea!" Thus from the suggestion that it was not "hospitable", IE, "dark, or black, or always stormy, etc., to a sea that is for the most part, not stormy, or dark, or rough, therefore "hospitable!" And, almost all current historians have to live with these thoughts, and tend to ignore them, for these ideas or speculations have become "fact!"
And, as regards the Adriatic Sea (Adri-Attica?) we see something similar, because the alternative is to call it The Sea of Venice! And it possible that Venice, might be connected to Venus, and especially the word Veneal, meaning "forgivable!", or in the nature of sins, something not really serious or bad, or dark, etc.
So, what if the two seas were regularlly confused, that is since the histories were not really understood, then similar words, with similar meanings, were sometimes given the wrong location? And, throughout our history these mistakes have become "fact?"
Ron
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Ron
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posted
On
7/31/2007
Since the invasion of the Dorian Greeks has sparked so much interest in the scholarly world, I thought I'd just say a few words.
Could "Dorian", merely be a contraction of "Adore?", or "Adorians?" Note that related words are "idolize, idolise, worship, hero-worship, revere." Thus any group that might have made use of statues of its gods or heroes, etc., would be called idolizers! And, cerainly, we can realize that one of the main differences between the Eastern rite chruch and the Western one, was the fact that the Roman church made statues of Jesus, Mary, etc., whilst those in the East used Icons, or Iconic representations. Of course in the Hebrew and Islamic world, the use of either would be considered an anathema!
But, maybe the more correct assumption might be the use of the word as "adorn" or "adornment"! Thus, the new power in the area were prone to excess adornment of theirselves, their buildings, and their gods! That is, if the custom of the local residents was one of austerity, plainess, and simplicity! Even the wearing of a crucifix, or brightly couloured clothing or armour (shields, banners, etc.) might seperate the new rulers from the old?
Thus, maybe we can assume that the use of the term Dorian, was only expressed after the conquest of the Greek lands by the last of the Crusaders?
Ron
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